Curse

Eaimirth Etaivella · Feb 13, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I use a modified version of IW in pvp random and team arenas

Maybe it is just luck, but I have had several, consistent runs of 9 or more wins (which is how I got into teams in the first place, we lost went back in won more got up to 10+ again, someone would leave. Go back to random rinse wash repeat)

Here is the build I use 16 illusion, 12 beast, rest Fast C
Disrupting lunge
Conjure phantasm (utility)
Distortion
Tiger's fury
IW
Rez sig
Illusion weakness
Charm animal

I use a denravi+a pre-rockmolder on it so I start with 54 max energy which easily sums up energy management. Other equipment might include that my pet is of the dire catagory adding to damage delt by his attacks

Avg dps for this is 42-44 (IW)+pet 20-40 or averaging about 70~ give or take depending on crits and skills used on pet, still a very large number

I play it rather defensivly, holding a staff and casting off conjure on targets at will, getting off decent dps at that rate. If there are no disenchanters, switch to sword, kill someone. If there are disenchanters, wait for war to come near switch and kill him in 7 seconds flat, send pet to go interrupt monk if they have one.

Back to disenchanters, everyone assumes a disenchant kills this build, not the case. Assume we run up to the disenchanter, they begin casting it, pet interrupts-whoops. Or lets go 2nd worse case scenario, we run up they disenchant, NOW we cast IW as all they got was illusionary weakness-whoops. Or we could go worse worse case scenario and have disenchant kill IW, which is discused below.

Given this, the pet is still averaging 30dps, which is by no means bad. Adding another 40 to that via conjure is good, and the fact that the pet does interrupt just makes it better. Often times I have been disenchanted (god forbid!) to kill the mesmer that did it with my pet alone. 3 attacks with IW and then taking a shatter to the face puts you at equal ground with the shatterer, which is respectable to say the least.

I'm just stating that IW is underrated, and if played correctly is a very powerful force.

(note: I have yet to see a decent Me/W IW)

Edit
Obvious counters for this build include
Empathy
Spitefuls

Not so obvious counters
Reversal of Fortune
-most hated skill ever
With 70~dps you meet a monks healing, literally. Healing touch, orisons, whatever doesn't matter you can out damage it. They cast, gain hp-wait for recharge. You swing a couple times and at worst you are at a stalemate. Orisons+DF bonus equals to some extent your dps, except they spent a ton of energy to do it. If your friendly neighborhood warrior uses gale or similar skill to KD for 2 seconds, you deal 140 damage, which is downright disturbing. Yet add RoF to this and its an entirly different story. 5 energy, quick cast, and can self target. Blocks your 42-44, heals them for DF bonus, and then heals them for 44...you just went 2 steps backward and they gained a DF bonus-ugh. I swear this is the most annoying skill since CoP (reason I did this build in the first place, is shame the only freakin counter for this spell?). If anyone can think of a super easy way to counter RoF please I am all ears, (above two can be annoying, but are able to be worked around with some/little effort *ss, use dot and pet* *empathy, dot and pet, or attack if >20~) {Backfire does very, very little to this build, almost humorous to have it cast on you}

Avarre · Feb 13, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

It's not a bad concept, using beast interrupts with IW mesmer. In CA this would be devastating. I usually run a tactics Me/W with deadly riposte to totally mess up warriors in CA, they die in about 5 seconds with clumsiness and DR. In fairness, my anticaster capabilities are lower, and rangers eat me.

RoF is best stopped by diversion.

In organized PvP however, this build has weaknesses... once people see you use a pet to distract, it is going to die fast. Conjure cannot outdamage even the most oblivious monk (I rarely, if ever, use this spell on IW, I prefer clumsiness).

What will kill you:

Lots of damage. Nonevadeable damage such as eles will rip up your low armor, unless you go for them first with distracts. I've always found degen to be a pain on IW builds as well.

Conjure is only +10d/s, not +40 as you mention a couple times

Overall, this looks pretty cool. You're good with not making the IW obvious, that helps against enchant strippers as well. Signet of Humility will still mess you up, though

SnipiousMax · Feb 13, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Overall, this looks pretty cool. You're good with not making the IW obvious, that helps against enchant strippers as well. Signet of Humility will still mess you up, though

The bane of all things IW!

The Real Roy Keane · Feb 13, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

That build is perfectly viable in CA; however I'd take Imagined Burden instead of Phantasm,since IW requires the target to be snared to be its most effective. Don't bother taking it to the tombs though, as IW will just get stripped as like as not.

Thom · Feb 13, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I have a CA build that runs similarly, but it is R/Me and runs the crippling pet attack, whirling and Call of haste. I like the Expertise and armor of a ranger better. You don't get the same per hit damage, but the attack is easier to maintain, disguise and support with pet attacks.

Problem with the build is that anyone who knows what they are doing will strip you and that isn't too much fun. I avoid attacking necros and mesmers for that reason. Warriors will stand there while you smack them, so they normally get most of my IW loving.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Feb 13, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

It's not a bad concept, using beast interrupts with IW mesmer. In CA this would be devastating. I usually run a tactics Me/W with deadly riposte to totally mess up warriors in CA, they die in about 5 seconds with clumsiness and DR. In fairness, my anticaster capabilities are lower, and rangers eat me.

RoF is best stopped by diversion.

In organized PvP however, this build has weaknesses... once people see you use a pet to distract, it is going to die fast. Conjure cannot outdamage even the most oblivious monk (I rarely, if ever, use this spell on IW, I prefer clumsiness).

What will kill you:

Lots of damage. Nonevadeable damage such as eles will rip up your low armor, unless you go for them first with distracts. I've always found degen to be a pain on IW builds as well.

Conjure is only +10d/s, not +40 as you mention a couple times

Overall, this looks pretty cool. You're good with not making the IW obvious, that helps against enchant strippers as well. Signet of Humility will still mess you up, though

Pet's 30 +5 degen from hex looks like 40 to me
And sig will have to hit in the very short time Its not on, including cast time-no longer than 5 seconds, assuming its not interrupted.

Avarre · Feb 14, 2006, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Adding another 40 to that via conjure is good

Ni, 10 via conjure

Just a slight wording problem that might confuse people...

Playing it as ranger is possible, but ranger IW hurts even less than a paladin's sword

Hella Good · Feb 14, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

I could personally never make IW work for me- it's just not worthwhile in my opinion- you just strip it off and that's about it, the mesmer is useless. I love Illusion magic; I think any self-respecting mesmer should be able to play Illusion and play it well, but IW doesn't shine at all compared to the rest of the Illusion arsenal. Max degen with a deep wound to spice things up is always preferable.

Avarre · Feb 15, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

The problem is max degen is 20d/s, which isn't very impressive... 2 seconds and a monk can remove your wound and 50% of your degen. The degen is mainly only to use as a side-effect to things like migrane lockdown or anguish snaring, not as a primary source like IW.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Feb 15, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

With degen its 20dps compared to 70dps, and for counters there are counters for everything; some are easier to counter than others. Conditions and enchantments are fairly easy to counter, while a monk casting CoP is rather difficult to counter, if not impossable (shame...)

Eaimirth Etaivella · Feb 19, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Due to lack of replies to topic, I will assume that IW (when played correctly *cough cough* {can some one please tell me the benefits of doing this as a Me/W?}) is a very potent source on the battlefield, especially in random arenas, although in GvG and HoH, it will meet its match (cept maybe verses Iway, would be interesting to see)

Avarre · Feb 20, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

An IW mesmer, flat out, will lose to a real warrior. 42d/1.33s does not compare to the 120+ eviscerates a warrior can deal out

4 IWAY warriors would turn an IW mes to dust and ash.

The benefits of Me/W are for flurry, bringing you to 42d/s. Without it, your attack speed and damage really aren't that impressive. Although while the ladder was frozen, I did try a Me/E with gale and IW in gvg... did well till people realized what was killing them, after which we got slaughtered

IW is really a CA / Farming skill rather than an 8v8 pvp one. It's not that it's damage is that poor, it's that the mesmer is not in a condition to be at the front of battle. Other classes with higher armor can deal a better dps anyways, so it fails there as well.

Dragannia · Feb 20, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

The problem most people have with IW Mesmers is that they can be stripped. Funny, because obviously those people don't use Sympathetic Visage as a cover enchantment. You NEED Symp Visage as a cover. And because I run the risk of being Rended, I bring along Power Spike as well.

Here's my build.

Illusionary Weapon<--Obvious
Flurry<---I like this skill. IW isn't the same without it.
Sympathetic Visage<---A must for EVERY IW build, unless you have a confirmed Monk or something cover-enchanting you. Plus, if a Warrior DOES manage to hit through Distortion, BOOM- there goes all their adrenaline.
Distortion<---Also a must. Warriors will eat you alive. If you bring Distortion, on the other hand, you'll be able to beat every Warrior out there.
Blackout<---Since you're doing melee damage, Blackout is very useful vs Monks and the like. I typically either stick on Distortion or Flurry, depending on the situation, then use Blackout.
Shatter Enchantment<---Good for pretty much every encounter. I bring it instead of Drain or Inspired because it deals a lot of damage, and you want damage in a IW build.
Power Spike<---In case of a Rending or Lingering Curse Necro. Same reason as above, compared to Leak or Cry.
Rez Sig<---No brainer.

Hidden Prayers · Feb 21, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Question:

Why not use IW with /Necro?
That allows you to use some skills like touch of agony and maybe even vampiric touch (though it has a fairly high energy cost).

I dunno, the main reason I use IW is for damage that can't be stopped easily by melee means. By this I mean heightening armor and what not.

I dunno it's an idea i put into practices with N/Me to some effect.
Any ideas?

NatalieD · Feb 21, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidden Prayers

Question:

Why not use IW with /Necro?
That allows you to use some skills like touch of agony and maybe even vampiric touch (though it has a fairly high energy cost).

I dunno, the main reason I use IW is for damage that can't be stopped easily by melee means. By this I mean heightening armor and what not.

I dunno it's an idea i put into practices with N/Me to some effect.
Any ideas?

Why would you stop attacking to deliver a touch skill that does slightly more damage than your attack, but hurts you almost as much?

Especially when you could've been Me/W and used Flurry to get half again as much IW damage?

Eaimirth Etaivella · Feb 21, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Flurry is downright bad compared to tigers fury, and pet brings interrupts as well.
Distortion will own any warrior...unless they start bringing warriors cunning, which I don't see happening...
-Even then, its their dps vs yours, and with illusionary weakness, you would win.

Hidden Prayers · Feb 21, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Why would you stop attacking to deliver a touch skill that does slightly more damage than your attack, but hurts you almost as much?

Especially when you could've been Me/W and used Flurry to get half again as much IW damage?

Ah true I forget myself...
Vamp touch doesn't deal much dmg with 10-12 in blood magic.
Silly me.

Dragannia · Feb 21, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Flurry is downright bad compared to tigers fury, and pet brings interrupts as well.
Distortion will own any warrior...unless they start bringing warriors cunning, which I don't see happening...
-Even then, its their dps vs yours, and with illusionary weakness, you would win.

Not with IW. Remember, they don't get the disadvtantages of Flurry. Plus, Tiger's Fury requires you to put points into Beast Mastery, as well as disabling important skills like Rez Signet and Blackout. Good on a Ranger, but utterly useless with a IW Mesmer.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Feb 22, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

tigers fury>flurry...33%>25%
My build above has Rsig
And beast mastery is the worst thing on the planet...
-30dps due to pet
-cheap, reuseable interrupts
-does not stop character from attacking...
-etc
Pet+disrupting lunge>blackout

And run that by me again where +33% attack speed is worthless on an IW character?

Murder In China · Feb 22, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

tigers fury>flurry...33%>25%
My build above has Rsig
And beast mastery is the worst thing on the planet...
-30dps due to pet
-cheap, reuseable interrupts
-does not stop character from attacking...
-etc
Pet+disrupting lunge>blackout

And run that by me again where +33% attack speed is worthless on an IW character?

Both Tiger's Fury and Flurry increase your attack speed by 33%....